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Offline Bilan

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Re: New Sonic game stuff
« Reply #90 on: September 04, 2007, 03:44:20 am »
I have absolutely no idea
Did you not think I had a mind?

Offline P.P.A.

Re: New Sonic game stuff
« Reply #91 on: September 04, 2007, 04:21:13 am »
I demand Tails Doll, Metal Knuckles, Fang and Mighty to return. And plz not in a faggified way like the Chaotix crew.
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Offline Magnezone

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Re: New Sonic game stuff
« Reply #92 on: September 04, 2007, 06:18:46 am »
My point wasn't that the story in Sonic 06 sucked, even though I believe so and will continue to believe so anyhow. I think the elements present in Sonic 06 might have meshed together better if there weren't so many seemingly randomly inserted ones in there, only one or two would have been much nicer and less antagonizing for the player.

But then again, none of that huge cluster of elements I noted matters anyway compared to the style that the first trailer they ever showed promised, like I insinuated in my previous post. Sonic the Hedgehog, running across wide plains with no randomly placed bottomless pit to annoy the crap out of me in sight ready to beat the crap out of hundreds of robots spawing from Eggman's revision of the Egg Carrier is something I just like the sound of. It's so genuinely classic, sounds fitting of the term "reinvention" that they were tossing around back then. Then... well, nevermind that. I've had my fill of ranting about the story for now.

They really should have stuck with that style through the game. Even if it was bound to turn into a crappy game anyway, it would have shown me that Sega actually remembers who Sonic the Hedgehog is, and actually cares about who he is as well. Instead of reaching out to its mentally disabled fanbase that mindlessly masturbates to everything they dish out and giving them everything they ever dreamed of happening in a Sonic game (see that sonic fanfiction flash), they should care about Sonic just... well, being Sonic. Things like Elise just are like "eh?" when thrown into the Sonic web. Carrying a damsel around all day is not the Sonic thing to do, yanno.

You've played and referenced Sonic 2, and regard that storyline as "epic." Whats the problem with doing that in a game nowadays? Sonic is an action-oriented platformer and action games have a storyline that you tend to be a part of constantly, as opposed to just watching it happen like in an RPG. Gears of War had a relatively believable story and you were in full control of the game at all times, apart from a few cutscenes. I honestly don't see why Sonic couldn't get to the Egg Carrier in the end without all the drama included. It's like, real life is dramatic enough. I don't need to watch soap operas of Sonic's friends all caught in one enormous mess.

Out of all the titles coming out for Sonic the Hedgehog, Sonic Rush Adventure is the only one I am looking because I just trust Dimps. I could care less about Marine and her crew of generic weirdos and Captain Whiskers (unless of course he puts up a good fight). Dimps' designs of Sonic games may not appeal to everyone, but when what's behind them is understood it leads to some very intersting moments. I am a 2D player at heart as it is, so that's to be expected. I can only assume you aren't quite like that looking at your TSC profile. But perhaps you feel that way about 3D games and a successor to Sonic 06, I'd assume?

Because in that case, I would really, really want them to just start from scratch on that engine. Playing without the gems as Sonic is a rather dull experience. Of course, you can just set the maximum speed twice as high and you'd be going about as fast as Sonic did in Heroes, but that's not exactly what I mean. Every action you can make with Sonic has a lot of control taken away from it, compared to previous games. The spindash is the greatest example. Adventure 1 was "tap b" for a quick burst and "hold b" for a faster burst, but Sonic 06 demands that you hold B, gives you a strange lack-of control while rolling, and.. you can't jump? What? Sonic jumping while rolling would seem logical and very much possible... And the spindash isn't alone either. Homing attack, Bounce attack, Light speed dash are all nerfed, probably listening to complaints from the fanbase about falling into bottomless pits too easily, but like... how about a wall instead of nerfing everything? If they're falling into so many bottomless pits, then there's either not enough ground or nothing to stop you from going into said pit. I think I would at least play the jungle level in Heroes if it weren't for that. They shouldn't have to disturb fluidity in controls to make a Sonic game worthy of this "next-gen" term that keeps getting tossed around aswell.

That, and you never really feel like you're in complete and utter control in that game if you try playing without the gems. It's all just going into one scripted scene to the next... I mean seriously, start Wave Ocean as Blaze and see when you actually start playing. It's like 10 seconds in. And these sequences where you're just staring at the screen waiting to regain control just happen so often. And it's not like they always did that to this extent either. :/

It's like they designed everything where they could infact be lazy developing this game. On a similar note, I maintain that they didn't rush this game at all, seeing as they showed footage of it a year and half before it was released. They couldn't have just been sitting around in a boat all day having tea-time for that long...

And speaking of those gems... they should have just given us debug mode if they were going to do that >_____>

And stop with the "Just my thoughts" line. >:O I know those are your thoughts. Its your words attached to your username; I can only assume that those are your thoughts and not mike's or Crowbar's or anyone elses, just like I can defer that my words are my own. I'm still going to be bored enough to reply whether you say that or not.

Lastly -

Quote
Silver cared about Blaze dying, what are you talking about.

If you ever had someone die just like that, you'd realize how fake that entire scene is. And just about every death scene on television too for that matter. When a good friend you rely on suddenly disappears instantaneously like that.. well, you don't just live with it for that point in time. Once I found out what happened to my mother, I didn't do anything for two weeks but cry pretty much, and attended her funeral pretty much on my birthday. How nice that was!

I can't honestly remember if Silver cried or not during that time, but he doesn't seem the aldultish type at all and also seemed a little too cheerful when you found him when all of the dimensions were being eaten in the last story and crap. Its like he just forgot about Blaze's existence altogether, when seeing as the other two endings conjoined with the last story pretty quickly, I'd imagine he'd still be upset that he was pretty much never going to see her again. That is, inevitably, the epitome of why I feel that Sega using the death flag in a storyline, three times, was just not admirable at all. If they're going to make a scene involving the death of a good character dramatic, do it right.

Speaking about the drama's behind death in a story, there is a very clear image you need in order to create a believable death. All death leads up from two things - weakness and pain. Just last week, I carried my dog outside and let her lay on the grass because she was so weak that she couldn't even stand, even whimpering a little, but still greatly excited by the fresh air and clear sunny day. Later on, still in my arms, she shivered... and that was it. Her eyes were still open, she was happy to see me with her, but she was dead. I find these implied truths of real death missing from the elaborate storylines of today. It's always just "OMG S/HES DEAD NOOOO." I personally find it rather odd. It's as if nobody these days truly understands what it is like to die...

Keep in mind that if you reply to that, I do not want condolences. I merely used those examples to speak from my own experience and give you a little imagery for what I'm talking about.

Offline F-Man

Re: New Sonic game stuff
« Reply #93 on: September 04, 2007, 06:29:00 am »
EDIT: fuck there was another page.

This is what I'm repying to:

Quote
So are you telling me, then, that the place where Blaze ends up after her sacrifice is in fact the alternate universe from Rush?

Lets see. She seals Iblis in her while she goes and disappears for the rest of the game in order to stop Iblis and seal it away. So after she does a whole lot of nothing for the entire game, I'm suddenly supposed to care about a "minor character" losing her existence completely. Pointless. There's also the part where Iblis joined with Mephiles later on anyway, a complete go-around when it comes to Blaze's "sacrifice," which basically renders what she did meaningless for the story since there's still Solaris eating the universe. It's a pretty lame attempt at an epic story element.
She sealed Iblis in the future. That didn't change the present. I also doubt she lost her existence. She moved to another dimension, which kinda rings Sonic Rush's bell, no? Despite whatever people might say about where that game goes in the storyline, it is irrelevant, because time does not necessarily flow simultaneously from one dimension to another. The whole game's cancellation at the end may just as well not change her fate, since she's not in the same dimension anymore.

Other than that, lol yea egg's a dumbass and such.

Offline Marth

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Re: New Sonic game stuff
« Reply #94 on: September 04, 2007, 11:21:46 am »
Random replying to little things that came up in the earlier pages.

- It annoys me when people say stuff like, say, "Winter 2007", when referring to the end of this year.
Winter 2007 was at the beginning of the year. The only other winter that's coming in 2007
is like 10 days long or something (compared to the nearly 3 months of winter early in the year),
and most of December is really part of fall, even if people think of it as winter,
maybe only to justify moving "winter" to the end of the year.

- Metroid Prime is by Retro Studios. Nintendo doesn't even make much of anything anymore.
The games that do certain not-Nintendo-y things (the kinds of music, use of FMV, etc.)
are usually second- or third-party, but Nintendo is given the credit (and accepts it).

- Retconning is something that should be avoided, even at some cost, in my opinion. It's best to just
make everything right the first time. Stuff might have to be added every now and then,
but it's not nearly as bad as if the changes contradict the original work.
(Although even when stuff is added, it can look sloppy. I don't know if what happened
in Spider-Man 3 (movie) was retconned, but it looked like it, and it seemed a little "slopped-in".
It has to do with Uncle Ben, by the way. That part, where... well, I probably shouldn't spoil it.
Or how one of Shadow the Hedgehog's stories reveals that Shadow was rescued by Robotnik
when it seemed like he would've died in SA2. But there are so many endings, and I just want to
ignore everything that ever happened in that game. Too bad the excuse used for Sonic06 is no good here.)
So, minor changes (ones that add to the story, instead of changing it) can be acceptable,
but they still shouldn't be done, if possible. But big changes should be avoided at almost any cost.
An inconsistent universe is really annoying to me, and I think everything should be
left alone, unless it's completely necessary to make some improvements.

Now, getting back off topic (well, Sonic 06 and the future of the series count as "new Sonic game stuff",
I guess), I'll just basically repeat what I've said many times about what I want Sonic (and Mario) to be.

Sonic's best 2-D game, in my opinion, was Sonic 2. (Sonic 3 and Knuckles was bigger,
but it's really two separate games, and it's still not as fun, even if it has more content.)
Why was it so good? It's the first Sonic game I played. Maybe that has something to do with it.
But that couldn't be all. It also seems faster than the others in the series.
And it has more variety, with 7 slightly shorter zones, 1 long zone, and 3 short zones.
(Sonic 1 always has 3 acts. Sonic 3 and S&K both have super-long 2-act zones.)
Although I like some features in Sonic 3 and Sonic CD, I'd base a new 2-D game's level design
on Sonic 2's, definitely. But I wonder what the newer handheld games are like. Sonic Rush sounds just right.

Sonic's best 3-D game, and the best game ever made, was Sonic Adventure.
The Sonic stages were great. Some of the others were pretty good. A few were torture,
when it came to getting emblems, or just boring otherwise.
The ultimate game would polish Sonic's control and level design slightly, but leave it a lot the same.
Adventure Fields could stay, but they'd need some work (make them bigger and less empty and boring).
Cutscenes would need decent graphics, scripts, and voice acting.
And the story, while epic, would have to actually exist. I don't know what Sonic06 is like,
but I know what Heroes and Shadow are like... ugh. There isn't a story at all, but everyone
is just being themselves, living life normally (in unusual places like Cryptic Castle and Gun Fortress),
and then a Last Story has to appear, which brings in this big threat, accompanied by
lots of cutscenes (including some FMV, as always), and then a big boss battle featuring
a floating Super version of the hero, getting pushed backward by cheap attacks from
the big threat i mentioned, while the main theme plays in the background.
It's the same thing every time, but of the 4 times I've seen it, only the SAs had a story.
It gets more stale every time, and Shadow was the worst, with its obvious rip-off of Heroes.

Big would have to go. Maybe he could get some decent stages, if he played like in Sonic Heroes.
Maybe even some bearable fishing stages, if there was more level to explore, with more places to fish,
and of course, a redesigned fishing engine. But it's not worth the trouble.
Sonic's stages were the best ones, but Amy, Tails, and Gamma could stay, I guess.
They'd need a little more polish than Sonic. Knuckles definitely needs to stay, but he needs good Action Stages
like Sonic's (for the first time since Sonic and Knuckles... unless you count Sonic Heroes,
but even there, he couldn't really glide, and his punches always targeted the nearest pit, for some reason).
Put simply, the ultimate Sonic game would be Sonic Adventure, with the annoying stages
cut out, and a little more effort and polish put into every area.

My favourite 2-D Mario is Super Mario Bros. 3. (I also considered both Super Mario Worlds,
but I think this one beats them both.) Like with Sonic 2, I'm guilty of liking it more
because I played it as a kid. But I don't think my opinion is too biased. It's just a great game!
Huge and full of variety, with what's probably the fastest and most responsive control in any Mario game.
I'd base the next 2-D Mario off this, but I'd probably borrow some features from newer games, just like with 2-D Sonic.

There are only two 3-D Marios, if I'm not forgetting anything. 64 vs. Sunshine. Wow, such a tough decision. (Not.)
Super Mario 64 has the castle, with its mysterious passageways and secret rooms.
Super Mario Sunshine has the wide-open Delfino Plaza, which is more fun to just run around.
64 has ridiculously exaggerated physics which make it annoying to play sometimes.
SS has floaty control, but its platform stages are too hard without FLUDD.
And there are a few other kind of annoying stages, although it's mainly the platforming that's frustrating.
SS had some cheap Blue Coins, but better bosses. And the levels were more like Adventure Fields.
Maybe that's the problem. Less risk of dying, but maybe the stages are a little bland.
And too much the same. And that, combined with the annoying stages, is what puts it below 64,
even though 64 has such bad control (I didn't even mention that the camera in 64 is choppy,
can't go through walls, and usually can't even rotate 360 degrees).
It really doesn't look like there's such a clear advantage, but for some reason, I think of 64 as being way better.
Anyway, I'd just polish and expand SM64 for a sequel. Forget everything from Sunshine.
Oh, and then there's the fact that SM64 has more stages, and it doesn't make you buy 24 of the stars...
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Offline Magnezone

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Re: New Sonic game stuff
« Reply #95 on: September 04, 2007, 04:41:32 pm »
Actually, you'd be surprised just how much Retro Studios is a part of Nintendo from watching some interviews. Even though Miyamoto had very little (if any) effect on Metroid Prime 3, Retro is apparently held to as high a standard as Nintendo EAD is when they make their video games. They're just based in Texas.

Offline Crowbar

Re: New Sonic game stuff
« Reply #96 on: September 04, 2007, 05:12:21 pm »
I was going to reply in full to egg's ridiculous posts, but, apart from the fact that SL did a fairly good job of it, they're too far back now for me to feel it worth the effort.

More than anything, however, you tried to argue that retconning little things to maintain the integrity of continuity I mentioned was okay, COMPLETEY AND UTTERLY MISSING MY KEY POINT which is that it is retconning ITSELF which destroys this.

So I can see that there's really no point trying to argue with you (again).

Offline eggFL

Re: New Sonic game stuff
« Reply #97 on: September 04, 2007, 06:33:50 pm »
I never liked the first Sonic06 trailer... it felt too desolate and un-Sonic-like. If it was in a city it would have been vastly better in my eyes.

I almost feel guilty for not liking it since I feel like in some profound way it contributed to what Sonic06 turned out to be. (kind of like how it seems that the more emotional and mixed a fanbase is the worse it will turn out for the game)

But hey they did look out for you since they included highspeed sections.

Quote
You've played and referenced Sonic 2, and regard that storyline as "epic." Whats the problem with doing that in a game nowadays? Sonic is an action-oriented platformer and action games have a storyline that you tend to be a part of constantly, as opposed to just watching it happen like in an RPG. Gears of War had a relatively believable story and you were in full control of the game at all times, apart from a few cutscenes. I honestly don't see why Sonic couldn't get to the Egg Carrier in the end without all the drama included. It's like, real life is dramatic enough. I don't need to watch soap operas of Sonic's friends all caught in one enormous mess.

That is a good idea. But it doesn't make a difference one way or another... as long as the cutscenes aren't too bad, flow well with the rest of the gameplay, and it's Sonic-only in all action stages. (that last part alone they have never managed to pull off, Shadow actually gets more focus in his own game than Sonic does in any of his) Which btw is the real issue here. The gameplay at its core is fine. But the overall package is less playable than ever.

You say they nerfed the controls in Sonic06... but that is more than made up for because of how cool Sonic looks. All they had to do was make no loading times in the stages and no gimmicks (no snowboards, no highspeed sections) and lots of free running. Speed plates and autopilot loops ad nauseum on the other hand are perfectly ok. But they didn't only go back on the controls of past Sonic games but the large, seamless levels... they went back to Sonic Adventure 1 but with epic loading times.

As long as you have a simple little action platformer with massive stages, you mix compulsive fun + exploration and you instantly have a brilliant game. Not a dull experience at all. The fact that Sonic stages are awesome and Sonic is so cool to watch are just a huuuuge plus.

I actually agree with taking out the spin-dash. It's basically an ugly move... if Sonic spin dashes everywhere, he won't run anywhere, and the game is essentially broken from both a gameplay and aesthetic standpoint. Also the light dash is an obsolete move, there is no reason for that move to exist anymore, it's just the cause of frustration, or a cheap version of a spring or ramp or boost/stunt-ring... you know they made it just to let Sonic get rings easily without requiring the player to be razor sharp with the controls....so the right choice is to give Sonic magnet shield ability BUILT IN without the need of an item.

Of course I'd much prefer Sonic Adventure 2 controls with spindash taken out in terms of controls. Or Sonic Adventure 1 without spindash... SA1 is a closer comparison to Sonic06 in terms of looseness of controls... just the speed would have to be toned down a bit.

Autopilot sequences are ok... as long as you control Sonic about half the time at least in the overall stage. Because they're kind fun to watch and they actually flow with the rest of the gameplay. You get him into an autopilot and at the end you have control of the momentum you are left off with. That's in no way bad, that's cool.

They can be lazy developing the game if they want to... if it actually allowed them to finish the game with any degree of quality.

Sonic isn't going to get the biggest development budget... but it's not a hard game to make I'm sure. You don't need to focus on superrealistic graphics or anything that impressive from a straight technological standpoint. Just focus on the controls, animations, and just make really large stages. That's pretty much it.

I still hate the gems. A Sonic game should have no such powerups.

Quote
If you ever had someone die just like that, you'd realize how fake that entire scene is. And just about every death scene on television too for that matter. When a good friend you rely on suddenly disappears instantaneously like that.. well, you don't just live with it for that point in time. Once I found out what happened to my mother, I didn't do anything for two weeks but cry pretty much, and attended her funeral pretty much on my birthday. How nice that was!

I'm not convinced. Besides, not everyone reacts the same way to death. Silver's just a kid after all, he's naive and you could say he is a little slow. Besides, wasn't he just about to sacrifice himself to seal Iblis.

And see, when Sonic died, everyone's emotional reaction was too strong imo. So that sort of ruined it. And it was kind of cheesy to have everyone there together to see it. How convenient, you know?

Marth -

Rather than adventure fields, gem-hunting stages as Sonic with tons of human NPCs would be a lot more effective.

If there are adventure stages, you should rarely if ever revisit them twice. The idea of an adventure stage connecting to several different stages that Sonic has to go to is just plain cheesy. Furthermore, the problem with adventure stages is that Sonic really shouldn't have anything to do in them. He shouldn't have to find powerups because a Sonic game basically shouldn't have powerups to begin with (powerups in all adventure games were pretty much forced or arbitrary... or are abilities you should start with but instead get very early on) And Sonic should not have to find a key or find someone's hat in order to access the next stage which is 20 miles long and has him leaping over buildings.

Another way to do adventure stages is to make them really, really large. I'm talking arbitrary large here. In other words, adventure stages are action stages! But WITH NO ENEMIES. They can either be desolate or have tons of NPC's. You would have to do nothing in them but get to the end. But since there would be no enemies (and perhaps no clock?) they could be puzzle-like. One of them may require Sonic to get across a river by using a subway.

Adventure is not a good model because the action stages are disjointed (and a bit gimmicky) and we already got an update to that formula in Sonic06. I mention this... cuz it's important.

Offline Magnezone

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Re: New Sonic game stuff
« Reply #98 on: September 04, 2007, 07:15:12 pm »
Okay.

Stop missing the point entirely and going off arguing something completely unrelated just so it looks like you disagree with everything I say. In other words:

Quote
You say they nerfed the controls in Sonic06... but that is more than made up for because of how cool Sonic looks.

Just... no. This is not arguing against my statement that the controls in Sonic 06 are severely botched compared to previous iterations.

Even this:

Quote
That is a good idea. But it doesn't make a difference one way or another... as long as the cutscenes aren't too bad, flow well with the rest of the gameplay, and it's Sonic-only in all action stages.

It's good, but it doesn't matter if there are retarted story elements getting in your way constantly as you progress through the game as long as you get nice cutscenes and it's Sonic only? What???

Quote
I actually agree with taking out the spin-dash.

Quote
The spindash is the greatest example. Adventure 1 was "tap b" for a quick burst and "hold b" for a faster burst, but Sonic 06 demands that you hold B, gives you a strange lack-of control while rolling, and.. you can't jump?

I said to take out the spindash???

Quote
Autopilot sequences are ok... as long as you control Sonic about half the time at least in the overall stage. Because they're kind fun to watch and they actually flow with the rest of the gameplay.

Did I buy Sonic, did I buy Final Fantasy, or did I buy a movie?!

Quote
You get him into an autopilot and at the end you have control of the momentum you are left off with.

I remember quite well Blaze just standing still everytime that 10 seconds of just letting the controller dangle from my hand ended, regardless of how she was blasted forwards.

Quote
They can be lazy developing the game if they want to...

...

"Hello security. As you are well aware, you are protecting a nuclear warhead from being taken by terrorist forces. Now, you can be lazy and just slack off every time they come near and try to steal it! Nothing bad will happen, don't worry!"

Quote
I'm not convinced. Besides, not everyone reacts the same way to death. Silver's just a kid after all, he's naive and you could say he is a little slow. Besides, wasn't he just about to sacrifice himself to seal Iblis.

I didn't say that he was about to sacrifice himself to Iblis. I said that because he's "just a kid after all," he doesn't have the experience to deal with losing a loved one such as Blaze in the blink of an eye. It doesn't matter if you're naive or slow or in the state of a coma - if you see it, you know it. I maintain that Silver is not a very good friend to Blaze in this sense.

Just... where is the sense????????????????

Offline Rick_242

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Re: New Sonic game stuff
« Reply #99 on: September 04, 2007, 07:20:08 pm »
Everyone...

stfu
<Sondow> also what
<Sondow> since when was S&K an expansion pack to s3
<Sondow> wiki LIES

Offline eggFL

Re: New Sonic game stuff
« Reply #100 on: September 04, 2007, 08:47:41 pm »
It's good, but it doesn't matter if there are retarted story elements getting in your way constantly as you progress through the game as long as you get nice cutscenes and it's Sonic only? What???

Well it's annoying to get cutscenes that are overly long or don't have to do with Sonic. Likewise it's pretentious to have so much cutscenes/story in a game that so terribly fails to give you solid Sonic gameplay in satisfying doses. The entire quest, gameplay and cutscenes should flow together like a movie. Then it will be great. Cutscenes shouldn't impede on the gameplay they should be part of it. When they are, they can be pretty long and it wouldn't be bad.

Another thing is about Sonic06 and Sonic Adventure 1... it's not the cutscenes that are the problem obviously... since you can skip cutscenes anyway. But the town stages... because if you skip a cutscene, you're still in the town stage. And then you have to progress to the next cutscenes, and so on... it doesn't matter if you skip them or not, since you can't skip the overall town stage, and it's still miserable.

Quote
I said to take out the spindash???

No, no. I wasn't agreeing with you, but the makers of Sonic06. For all intents and purposes, they did take out the spindash, and I think it was a good move for the most part.

Quote
Did I buy Sonic, did I buy Final Fantasy, or did I buy a movie?!

Final Fantasy doesn't have autopilot sequences.

I sort of think of autopilot sequences as QTE sequences in Shenmue or context-timed-button-presses sequences in God of War or other games.... except that you don't actually have to press any button. (although you may have to hold up on the control stick, in previous Sonic games) Those games have them, and they are considered good, so no reason Sonic can't have them too.

Maybe a approach for autopilot sequences in a future Sonic game could require you to simply hold the control stick in the right direction as indicated by an on-screen graphic. That would be amazing.

Either way the game can have a huge dose of autopilot sequences and it wouldn't matter as long as there is Sonic gameplay in between them.

Quote
I remember quite well Blaze just standing still everytime that 10 seconds of just letting the controller dangle from my hand ended, regardless of how she was blasted forwards.

Unless perhaps the sequence lands with them landing from a jump or ramp, they always run forward a little until they come to a stop from lack of player input. I think a better example of this is the first autopilot sequence in Flame Core. Coming off from the loop, Sonic/Shadow is going really fast... and you have control of him. (which is why the first thing we do when time attacking is sweep kick to hold the momentum for even longer)

Quote
"Hello security. As you are well aware, you are protecting a nuclear warhead from being taken by terrorist forces. Now, you can be lazy and just slack off every time they come near and try to steal it! Nothing bad will happen, don't worry!"

I'm saying they can take shortcuts when developing a game. Though most of my examples would be more subtle than totally artificial controls. Or more straightforward, like absolutely no CG cutscenes. Or simplifying graphics in places in order to keep the game speed from falling. Or avoid making overly ambitious stages or ideas and just stick to basic elements. One possible example would have been to avoid making Sonic + Elise stages altogether, or making them mini-stages with no jumping... because then you could spend less time animating them. Thing is, most of my examples are for the sake of aesthetic, something they didn't seem to concerned about at all beyond a certain point.

They nerfed the controls supposedly so they can focus on other aspects of the game and avoid complaints. From the end result though, we see that the spared effort didn't go anywhere at all.

Offline Bilan

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Re: New Sonic game stuff
« Reply #101 on: September 04, 2007, 08:49:11 pm »
.

Did you not think I had a mind?

Offline eggFL

Re: New Sonic game stuff
« Reply #102 on: September 04, 2007, 08:59:20 pm »
=(

Offline Bilan

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Re: New Sonic game stuff
« Reply #103 on: September 04, 2007, 09:04:09 pm »
srry :(

nt rly
« Last Edit: September 05, 2007, 12:20:49 am by Drifloon »
Did you not think I had a mind?

Offline P.P.A.

Re: New Sonic game stuff
« Reply #104 on: September 05, 2007, 04:09:07 am »
* P.P.A. stamps this thread as tl;dr.
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Offline KnucklesSonic8

Re: New Sonic game stuff
« Reply #105 on: September 09, 2007, 05:08:11 pm »
This recent news is both appealing, somewhat exciting, and yet, it somewhat worries me.

Previously, someone mentioned earlier (I think it was SkyLights, I don't recall) that you guys might not add Time rankings for SRA if SEGA puts up those specific rankings for online leaderboards.

Turns out, they're doing something similar for Zero G...
It excites me more about the game, however, it worries me that you guys might not add Time rankings despite the fact that this game is deserving of competiton for times, specifically.

Link'd: http://www.nintendowiifanboy.com/2007/09/07/sonic-riders-features-online-leaderboards/

Online rankings will be implemented, but, it was acknowledged that online races wouldn't be the best of ideas due to lag issues (F-Man, remember when we tried Riders online? :P But srsly, my computer's better now).

I can't wait to see the final boxart, with the Wi-Fi symbol.
Hopefully, we Wii owners will get messages via WiiConnect24 about top rankers and such.

All in all, though, this news is noteworthy, yet, I'm a little fearful to hear what everyone has to say about it, in terms of its potential of Times being added on the site.
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Offline F-Man

Re: New Sonic game stuff
« Reply #106 on: September 09, 2007, 05:39:26 pm »
Why would there be lag? Your time will just be uploaded at the end of a race.

If Sega keeps going with these online rankings, I guess TSC could stop. I wouldn't mind. It would be "the place to compete in the older titles with no online support". Oh wait, Sonic Adventure. It had rankings but good luck finding them now.

I wonder if they do this because of us? :P Probably not.

Oh yeah and prepare for lots of cheating. So TSC could be the cheat-free place.

And we don't know yet if all times will be up to see...

Offline KnucklesSonic8

Re: New Sonic game stuff
« Reply #107 on: September 09, 2007, 05:47:20 pm »
GP.

And that would be funny if they did that b/c of TSC. XD
But seriously, what does everyone else think about the news regarding online leaderboards?

And F-Man, I've come to expect that there would be SOME form of cheating (maybe something with the Gravity Dive or the "black hole" or even th Gear you use, who knows) after what's been going on in Mario Strikers' Wi-Fi and the craziness that has ensued as a result.

And I'm hoping that it will get added. I'd DEFINITELY prefer to compete here than some leaderboard.
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Offline Alondite

Re: New Sonic game stuff
« Reply #108 on: September 09, 2007, 06:02:32 pm »
Eh, neither one of those games interests me really. Riders was meh..and I hate the level design in modern 2D Sonics. It's all rollercoaster with little platforming, and the bosses are just lol, so i'm not to thrilled with SRA either, though I may pick it up just for the hell of it.

Offline KnucklesSonic8

Re: New Sonic game stuff
« Reply #109 on: September 12, 2007, 04:52:14 pm »
If you're curious, new screens:
http://www.famitsu.com/game/coming/1209938_1407.html

Amy looks as though she's riding on a board that resembles "The Crazy" from the original. :/
And what's w/ the ring on Storm's finger? Don't tell me he's going gangster too... XD
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Offline EngiNerd

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Re: New Sonic game stuff
« Reply #110 on: September 12, 2007, 06:51:38 pm »
And what's w/ the ring on Storm's finger? Don't tell me he's going gangster too... XD

Hmm, the ring only seems to be in one of the screenies.  Maybe some kind of item feature is in this?
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Offline eggFL

Re: New Sonic game stuff
« Reply #111 on: September 12, 2007, 08:09:10 pm »
Hey, I think that's just his gravity control bracelet! Only he wears it on his finger instead of his wrist like Sonic and Jet. That's pretty cool right?

The game looks particularly better than the first Riders or is it just me. The environments are way more detailed and mature.

And damn the CG models are amazing.


You know the board designs in this game are so much better than the first. They look more chunky and 3D and futuristic and original. Before they were riding on thin generic planks.

Offline KnucklesSonic8

Re: New Sonic game stuff
« Reply #112 on: September 28, 2007, 05:35:54 pm »
I second that.

I'm looking forward to a much more variety in courses.
I'm wondering if EVERYONE from the original will appear, plus two new characters (obviously, Blaze and Silver). I'd prefer they took out Ulala though.. And as much as I'd hate to say it, they should take out Aiai and NiGHTS too... but I doubt they'd do that.

And yeah, the ring is for him to control gravity, I was just alluding to the fact that the screen made me think of the boxart for SatSR and how when people first saw it, they made fun and thought Sonic was becoming a gangster.


edit: Turns out, the SEGA characters are, in fact, returning also. Darn.. Now that leaves two slots and it's 100% clear who's getting in.
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Offline ChaoRC

Re: New Sonic game stuff
« Reply #113 on: September 29, 2007, 06:27:38 pm »
Turns out, the SEGA characters are, in fact, returning also. Darn.. Now that leaves two slots and it's 100% clear who's getting in.

Not necesarily. What about the E-10000 robots? That's two more slots left. I'm hoping for Metal Sonic. Maybe Omega since he's been in a few games recently.
Don't like the fact that all of the SEGA characters are returning. I only prefer NiGHTS. But they could of surprised us and give us another batch of SEGA characters. Ristar would of worked.

Offline eggFL

Re: New Sonic game stuff
« Reply #114 on: September 29, 2007, 08:10:06 pm »
Yea here's the thing... Nights almost has to stay. They are releasing a new Nights game... it would be pointless to take him out. And Nights is everyone's favorite to begin with. But there is not much reason to keep Aiai and Ulala. Especially Ulala. But can they leave Nights in as the only non-Sonic character? Tough choices. I think they would leave all three since they already made them from Sonic Riders 1 and replacing them would require making new ones. They're too lazy for that, and Riders 2 isn't the kind of game to have that much new stuff, clearly being so similar to Riders 1. So my guess is that it will have everything from the old game (dont see why they would take out the robots) + Silver and Blaze.

Offline P.P.A.

Re: New Sonic game stuff
« Reply #115 on: September 30, 2007, 06:15:52 am »
I demand Alex Kidd, in his SEGAGAGA design!

Also I haven't unlocked any of the SEGA characters in Riders 1. Just couldn't be arsed to play that much.
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Offline KnucklesSonic8

Re: New Sonic game stuff
« Reply #116 on: September 30, 2007, 11:24:46 am »
Turns out, the SEGA characters are, in fact, returning also. Darn.. Now that leaves two slots and it's 100% clear who's getting in.

Not necesarily. What about the E-10000 robots? That's two more slots left. I'm hoping for Metal Sonic. Maybe Omega since he's been in a few games recently.
Don't like the fact that all of the SEGA characters are returning. I only prefer NiGHTS. But they could of surprised us and give us another batch of SEGA characters. Ristar would of worked.

I was referring to Silver and Blaze. <_<
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Offline ChaoRC

Re: New Sonic game stuff
« Reply #117 on: September 30, 2007, 03:03:11 pm »
Turns out, the SEGA characters are, in fact, returning also. Darn.. Now that leaves two slots and it's 100% clear who's getting in.

Not necesarily. What about the E-10000 robots? That's two more slots left. I'm hoping for Metal Sonic. Maybe Omega since he's been in a few games recently.
Don't like the fact that all of the SEGA characters are returning. I only prefer NiGHTS. But they could of surprised us and give us another batch of SEGA characters. Ristar would of worked.

I was referring to Silver and Blaze. <_<

Well, let me restate it: "That's two more slots left. I'm hoping for Metal Sonic. Maybe Omega since he's been in a few games recently."

More, as in "now there's a total of 4."
You missunderstood. Just thought I cleared that up.

Offline KnucklesSonic8

Re: New Sonic game stuff
« Reply #118 on: September 30, 2007, 07:00:33 pm »
Wasn't necessary. Besides, don't count on it. Omega would like retarded on a board, but that's just me. And anyway, they did say all returning characters plus two new ones - naturally, that would encompass "unlocks".

In other words, probably no more characters. I wish there were but...
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Offline eggFL

Re: New Sonic game stuff
« Reply #119 on: September 30, 2007, 09:23:08 pm »
Omega would look fine on a board if you think about it. Imo. Like, I at first I would agree, like I don't see it happening. But now I think it would actually look really cool. Besides, Cream looks stupid on a board but that didn't stop them now did it. And "looking retarded" was not a concern of theirs clearly when they added Aiai, Ulala, and perhaps Nights.

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